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  • (To Amateur Obsessive, though all are welcome)

    Hello, and thanks very much for the welcome. I admit I am relatively new to Wikia, and I do get a bit (well, a lot) carried away when it comes to Moriarty. I want to apologize if I came off as rude at all, because I certainly don't want to make any enemies in a new community, just the opposite.

    So, back on the subject, I'll start off by listing a couple of reasons why I believe Moriarty should be referred to in the present tense:

    1. At the end of HLV (no, I mean the very end), we see without a doubt Moriarty alive and breathing, which seems to clear up any confusion after the uncertain gif-like video on the screens of England. We can never know for sure, obviously (until series 4 airs), but it seems logical that in light of what we know to keep him in the present tense.

    2. People who are new to the show/who haven't seen TRF yet may see him being referred to in the past-tense and be confused, so therefore keeping him in present tense would save spoilers and confusion, because they wouldn't be aware of series 3 anyway, besides the reason I gave above.

    Also, I noticed that on CAM's article, he has a date of death. Moriarty's doesn't, though you are insisting on keeping him in the past tense. Since his fate is unclear enough to not include a date of death, then perhaps it would also make sense to refer to him as "is".

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    • Hello, and don't worry about it, we all get passionate about our favourite things. :)

      I'll just reply quickly for now, since I'm about to go to bed.

      I think we should leave things the way they are because we should report the facts as they appear in the show, in as much detail and accuracy as possible.

      I think that we don't actually know if Moriarty is alive or dead right now. Either is equally as likely given how it ended - the video Moriarty could be faked/a double/etc, or he could really be alive - and I don't think we should imply something that we don't know.

      The last concrete fact we have on Moriarty is that he shot himself in the head and was presumably dead. After that I think the end of the last series appearance is too unsure and up in the air to rely on for proof of his status.

      So I don't think we should explicitly state one way or the other that he is alive or dead until we know for sure. But I do think that his article should be kept in the past tense as the last concrete fact we had was that he was dead.

      However, we are quibbling over one word so if the majority want to change it to present tense I don't mind. I am however firmly of the opinion that we should stick to describing exactly what happened in the episodes and not state whether he is alive or dead until the next series airs and we know for sure.

      (Okay, that was a lot longer than I intended. xD)

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    • Oh, and when it comes to spoilers, we don't keep them out of articles at all as we like to be as informative and complete as possible. I think people reading a wiki will be aware that there may be major spoilers and we do warn people about that on the main page of the wiki.

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    • I totally get where you're coming from, I really do, and your argument is a strong one.

      Also, about the spoilers, that is totally true. I should have thought that bit through more. xD

      But, I'm afraid I just can't give in that easily just yet. :P The reason for that being that if he does not have a date of death listed and he is still being referred to in the past-tense, it seems like that doesn't make very much sense..."Is" and "was" are a big difference. "Is" is indefinite, while "was" sounds is a bit too condemning.

      Also, seeing him shoot himself in the head doesn't quite seem to be the last concrete fact we've had, after the after-credits scene in HLV which is very clearly him alive to our perspective.

      Take Sherlock, for example: We saw him smash his head on the pavement and then right at the very end we see him in the flesh. Well, how it that any different to Moriarty? He was just as apparently alive and breathing in that bit at the end of HLV.

      Moriarty's death was also never discussed in series 3 (oddly). There were never any news reports on John's blog or the show itself talking about or even slightly mentioning it. It was never made a meal of. So, it seems that in light of this and the apparently obvious after-credits scene, that he should be able to be accurately described in the present tense.

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    • If I may interject a comment into this discussion, I would like to do so. I agree with the comments put forth by Sarhinaflower. We know that Moriarty is equally as clever as Sherlock Holmes. They were 'made for each other.' We also know that Moriarty was involved in very detailed planning leading up to the exchange on the roof. He had created an alter ego that was an actor, complete with DVDs and print articles. He had secured a job at Barts Hospital, giving him an inside track at the hospital, just as Sherlock had with Molly. He had every opportunity to prepare and fake his death as well. His appearance at the end of the credits asking ..Did you miss me? Implies that he is someone we know and miss>>Moriarty! Moriarty IS alive. All that remains is How? If Sherlocks faked death is any indication...we may never know.

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    • Perhaps we could simply change it to "is/was"? That way it's settled without conflict.

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    • I'm new here, so... bear with me. I have to confess that my personal answer to Moriarty's "did you miss me" at the end of HLV was, um, no! stay dead! but I also understand from a story perspective that his character is not done yet with his "project" of "burning Sherlock's heart out" so it's more than likely, from a story-structure angle, that he is still alive. So much from TRF is unresolved by series 3, that I think we have to keep in mind that we just don't have answers to a lot of questions yet. The show is deliberately ambiguous about a lot of things still, that will (we can hope) be resolved in s4 or 5. "is/was" is a good compromise, since after TRF aired, we were meant to believe that Moriarty was dead... now we are meant to be wondering, or believe that he is alive after all.

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    • I think we should consider that Moriart's fake death with Sherlock's fake death together. They might have purposely didn't wanna explain Sherlock's fake death at s3e01 definitively. Any theory seems silly considering how much of a genius these too and the theories are too dumb even for a normal person. I dont know what but maybe there is one big adequate explanation

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    • that's a good point, they couldn't fully explain Sherlock's faked death without tipping their hand as to Moriarty's death being either real or fake.

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    • MORIARTY IS REAL THIS IS HIS FACE
      Professor Moriarty Sherlock Special
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    • A FANDOM user
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